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Language Families
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Hi,
I just stumbled onto your site while surfing and I'm glad I did, because it's such an informative site. I have a few questions though.
In the Sino-Tibetian section, you list 8 chinese languagues. What's the difference between Yue and Cantonese? I thought Cantonese was one of the Yue dialects.
Under Malayo-Polinesian, the Western Branch include Visayan and Malay. While this is correct, I've always thought that Visayan is a family of languages that include Cebuano, for example, spoken on the island of Cebu? Likewise with Malay. Although it may seem to be one language, the variations that are spoken - Kadazan-Dusun, Brunei, Iban are mutually indistinguisable from each other (although they do share common words, but then again, so does Tagalog and Malay). Of course, there are dialects of Malay as well, "Malaysian East Coast", Tutong, etc. etc. These versions of Malay are differentiated only by differences in pronunciation.
Where would you consider "patois" languages? The "Straits Chinese" of Malaysia and Singapore, for example, speak a pidgin language that is a cross between 14th century chinese and Malay. Likewise with the many other "Eurasian" groups in West Malaysia/Singapore.
Also, do you have any idea what languages the "indigeneous" people of Malaysia - the Semang on the Peninsula and the Penan on Borneo - speak? Any information there would be helpful.
Thanks / Efharisto / Terima kasih / Takk.
KryssTal Reply: Hello there.
I will need to check Yue out but I think I've read that before somewhere. You are quite correct, Visayan is a Philippino language spoken in Cebu. I did mention that the idea of language and dialect can be political as much as linguistic.
My pages do not consider patios and creoles. I do not really know too much about them.
Dear Kryss Tal:
First, I must compliment you for your very informative web site. However I do have a question regarding the Afro-Asiatic language family. The Afro-Asiatic web page states the following:
"This language family [Afro-Asiatic] originated in the Sahara area before it became a desert..."
Has not the most recent research indicated that the Cushitic branch is older than any of the other branches of this language family and that it originated in Ethiopia? Has there been research published that is more recent than that of the late Dr. Joseph Greenberg's that places the origin of the Afro-Asiatic language family in the pre-desert Sahara?
http://www.krysstal.com/langfams_afroasia.html is a very interesting page, but it has "Old Testiment" for "Old Testament".
In fact, the term "Old Testament" is in disfavor in some parts of Christianity because it suggests supersessionism. Many mainline Christians refer to "the Hebrew Scriptures" and the "Christian Scriptures."
KryssTal Reply: Thanks for that - I'll correct it.
Your pairing of HEBREW (a language) and CHRISTIAN (a faith) is strange. Perhaps the pairs should be one of the following:
Jewish / Christian Scriptures
Hebrew / Greek Scriptures
Old / New Testament
Regards.
Dear Sir
Are there any extant sources of the Koine language? Who actually developed the language and how was it transmitted? I thank you in advance for your co-operation.
Kind regards
KryssTal Reply: Hello, The books used in Greek Orthodox churches are in Koine.
Hello!
I came to write you to correct your information about Finno-Ugrics living areas concerning Mordvin, Komi and Nenets. The only ones living in Siberia are Ob-Ugrians and some samoyeds. Mordvin, Komi and Nenets mostly live in Northern Russia on the western side of Uralic mountains. Siberia starts from Uralic mountains eastward in my understanding.
Yours sincerely.
KryssTal Reply: Thank you, I will make corrections.
1. Is Tibetan really a tone language?
2. Do you think it is totally accurate to say that Min, Hakka, Xiang, etc. are written with Chinese characters? I know that people of all dialects have a habit of writing in Mandarin, and of pronouncing Mandarin in the sounds of their own dialect, but is this the same as saying that they write their own dialect in characters? (I know that they do in Cantonese, but this may be something of an exception.)
Thank you for the vast amount of information on language families!
Since I come from germany, i want to state some comments about recent germanic languages:
- swiss german is well understood all around germany
- in the northern part of germany (low germany) dialects are going extinct, foremost the dialect we call "plattdeutsch" which is spoken near "Nordrhein-Westphalen", while the most characteristic dialects can be found in the southern part of germany (high germany), namely bavarian and swabian, which with some training can also be understood by all germans. The people of eastern germany speak a dialect called "saxon", but I don't know if this has to do anything with the saxon tribe, since there's not much in common with the english language.
KryssTal Reply: Thank you for your kind comments.
Through an article on Kuro5hin.org about languages, I stumbled upon your website about languages. I read most of it with great interest and I noticed a mistake in the Germanic section of the Indo-European family:
Dutch and German are the closest major languages related to English. An even closer relative is Frisian. Flemish and Afrikaans are varieties of Dutch....
I live in Flanders. Here's an explanation that might shed some light on the situation.
The language spoken in the Netherlands and Flanders (northern part of Belgium) is Dutch. Flemish Dutch is both officially and grammatically the same as Dutch Dutch. Aside from many different dialects across both regions (which are slowly dying), there are a few general differences between the two. The difference can be compared somewhat to the differences between UK English, US English and Australian English, however there is only one accepted spelling in Dutch. Because the two are geographical neighbours, they blend-over at the borders. When written, it's hard to see if a text is Flemish Dutch or Dutch Dutch. Flemish Dutch speakers use more words that are Romanic in origin, rather than Germanic, but dictionaries include both. This is because Flanders was mostly still inside the Roman empire, while the current Netherlands were not. What's also interesting is that for a long period in the 17th century and on, the current Netherlands and Flanders were united as one country called "the Netherlands".
Back to languages... Afrikaans is a totally different issue however. Originally it was mix of Dutch with the local languages in South-Africa. It shares most of the vocabulary with Dutch, but has several of its own words and sometimes attributes different meanings: "spullen" in Dutch means "stuff, things" (neutral), but in Afrikaans it means "junk" (negative). Afrikaans is officially a different language and with every right: the grammar is different, a simplified form of Dutch. There are no genders, no conjugations, no cases, ... When compared to their Dutch counterparts, most Afrikaans words are shortened forms. A distinctive feature of Afrikaans is that it accepts almost no foreign words into its vocabulary, which results to often funny, graphic replacement words (tunnel is translated into dive-way, metro becomes mole-train. Its regular vocabulary is also very graphical: a strike is a 'stay-away-action', an elevator is a 'lifting-box'.
People who speak one can understand the other without much trouble, and it's easy to learn how to speak the other as well.
You write that Finland is a part of Scandinavia. It isn't. You can see
http://www.britannica.com/eb/article?eu=67724&tocid=0&query=scandinavia
if you are in doubt.
They do write "Some authorities argue for the inclusion of Finland on geologic and economic grounds ..", but nevertheless, Finland is NOT a Scandinavian country.
Very interesting site.
I like your list of borrowed words. I would like you to consider another one:
- The name of the star Aphrodites comes from Albanian. In Albanian "Aferdita", is the combination of two words: "afër" - meaning "near" and "dita" meaning "day". Aphrodites is the first star to appear in the evening and the last to disappear at dawn. That makes it the star that is nearest to the daylight.
Thanks,
KryssTal Reply: Hello,
I'm afraid I haven't been able to confirm this. Afros is Greek for foam as she is supposed to have been born of the sea. Also, it is an ancient Greek name so if it was borrowed, it would have been from an older language, perhaps a forerunner of Albanian.
Thanks for writing.
Hi KryssTal,
Thanks for your response and for checking my suggestion. I agree with you - it has to be a language older than Greek. The second part of the word, though, "dita" (day), sounds very Albanian. It is so strangely close to "drita" (light) and it is a very basic concept. Anyway, I am just an amateur in these matters.
I have a couple of suggestions for your site concerning the Albanian language (where I consider myself more confident). When you describe it as a branch of the Indo European family of languages you write:
The Illyric Branch
Another single language branch. Only Albanian (strongly influenced by the Slavic languages) belongs to this branch. It has been written in the Latin script since 1908; this replaced the Arabic script. Albanian has many avoidance words. Instead of saying wolf, the phrase may God close its mouth is used.
There are two dialects so different that they could be considered separate languages. Geg is spoken in the north of Albania and Kosovo. Tosk is spoken in southern Albania and north west Greece.
1. The parts I have underlined are not very accurate. The languages that have influenced Albanian are (in order of their influence): Latin (Italian), Turkish, Greek, Slavic.
2. Albanian has never been written in Arabic script. It has been written in Latin and Greek script, but never in Arabic. When the modern alphabet was discussed in 1908, there was an idea to write it in Arabic script (Albania was conquered by Turkey then), but no one supported it.
3. There are a few taboo concepts (not words), but they are no longer in use now. The Albanian for wolf is and has always been ujk, pretty much as the Indo-European word. I have read this example in other sites about Albanian and I don't know who came up with that idea. It sounds very strange and unknown to most Albanians.
4. The two dialects, Gheg and Tosk are different, but Albanians can understand each-other perfectly. They are no more different than US English is from Australian English.
Thanks and have a nice day,